Thoughts on Solar

I’m sorry you are not seeing any benefit (negative benefit??) from having solar - have you spoken to the installer? I would expect mid-Winter in PA would be fairly minimal production, which 300 kWh clearly is for an 8 kW system. I would go back and look at the proposal that you were given - did it have estimated monthly production figures? If so, you might compare the 300 kWh to what was modeled. Perhaps the 50% reduction isn’t predicted for every month, but for the year as a whole? In which case, you might see greater than 50% reductions in the peak summer months.

In any event, give the installer a call and see what they will do for you.

Best of luck…

Jim

Good afternoon, Jim! Thank you for the breakdown of the discrepancy between the production measured by the solar company (Sunnova in my case) and the utility (MetEd). My wife and I were fairly shocked when we looked at our bill from the utility company after our first month with solar panels. I thought there would at least be some minimal savings, yet the bill was even higher than the same time last year (same kWH usage, higher per kWH cost from the utility). We use a fair amount of kWH due to charging my Tesla most days and we have 20 total 400 Hanwha Q Cells. We produced 300 kWH for February (which I realize isn’t much due to the time of year/weather in Pennsylvania), yet the utility bill still went up. I feel like I was scammed into signing the lease contract after being promised close to a 50% offset with our bill. We’d appreciate any insight you could provide! Thank you!

1. They raise the electric rates once you sign up for the program 2. They now add a min usage fee of 19 dollars a month 3. If you do not shut off your mini inverters at night there is a $10 a month drain all night long.

I would note that in the first instance it would make sense to ask these questions of the company that you picked to do the install!

That said, let me see if I can answer some of these. I don’t know anything about your usage, so it is impossible to say whether it is “worth it” to add solar. You said 12 panels, so if they are 400 Watt panels, that is a 4.8 kW system, that on average would produce around 7,200 kWh/year. If it is covering 70% of your usage, that would mean you are using roughly 10,300 kWh/year - is that correct? The price seems reasonable, coming in at $3.43/Watt - assuming 400 W panels.

Because you will be under the current net metering rules - and a time-of-use rate - energy you export to the grid during the middle of the day is compensated at a lower rate than energy you import from the grid during peak rates at 4-9 p.m. (The only way around that is to add an energy storage system - i.e., a battery - but that would nearly double to cost of the system.)

Good luck…

Jim

Hi Jim. I haven’t installed solar yet but I have chosen a company through SCE’s Solar Market Place. I was contacted by Electrum who provided me with bids from many solar companies that are vetted by SCE. Because I have a small roof there is only room for 12 panels. I was told that it would only generate about 70% of my electricity usage based on my previous usage of the last 12 months. I will be paying all cash, the system is only about $16.5k. I am wondering if it is even worth getting solar. Right now we are on TOU 4-9 so run the dishwasher and wash clothes at night. That’s when we use the most energy. We are all electric here. I live in Whittier, CA. If I’m not generating power at night then I guess I will be using SCE power. Will I be able to use the power I generate during the day or will I have to buy it back from SCE at night? Is it true I only get it back at 75%?

We got solar when we moved to Florida. Was getting a bill over 200 a month to even 300. Got solar, was told it would drop to under 100 and I would pay 177 a month for payment on solar. My electric bill during the summer is right now 186..last year it got up to over 250, plus then the solar payment, it is more than I was paying for just electric. So disappointed in this. I also thought I was getting a battery with this..never happen3d

Added 1.2 kw system to my house shocked to see my rates went from .26 to .30/.52 norm/peak my bill was actually higher go figure spending thousands for nothing. they should have warned me.

Glad you liked the post!

If you are in SCE territory I don’t believe they will let you switch back, but if you can where you are, absolutely do so.

Adding more panels is an option, but you might also want to focus on how you are using energy - can you switch high energy loads out of the peak TOU period? For example, if you have an EV, program it to not charge during that peak period (in SCE territory, 4-9 p.m.) - that will help a lot. Dishwashers and clothes washers also generally have a delayed start option that can be helpful.

Best regards…

Jim

Thank you for this article. It is great. We have had solar for approximately 8 years now. We have always had the TOU system and it has worked mostly after the first initial shock of receiving that first bill. Recently the TOU hours have changed and our bill has doubled. Do you suggest we go back to the tiered system or add more solar panels. Our bill seems to have increased significantly over the last year.

Thank you for the kind words.

$60k sounds pretty high for 20 panels and one battery. What percentage of your produced energy will be exported? The battery will help with that, since you will charge the battery before exporting surplus energy, but if that percentage is high, you might do better with a smaller system. (It is not uncommon for a solar power system to export 50% of its production or more.)

I know very little about the deregulated mess that is the Texas energy market, but I found this article interesting: Going solar in Texas without net metering. I don’t know if you have access to any of the four retail electricity providers that do offer net metering, but if so, you might want to switch to one of them.

Best of luck!

Hello Jim, I’m so glad I found this article and the comments. I have not yet installed, we are waiting for the city to approve the permit. We just found out that the city does not have the ‘net metering or energy buyback program? I’m having major second thoughts. Especially, with the total costs being close to $60k. After the Solar credit we will still owe $43k. Do you recommend Solar without that? Our contract is for 20 panels and 1 Tesla battery. I live in Texas, Gonzales County, I know you’re in California but any advice would be appreciated.

Darren -

Thank you for the kind words. This post drives more traffic than pretty much every other post I’ve written in 12 years of writing this blog - clearly it hits home with a lot of people.

The issue around NEM 3.0 in California is nothing less than an existential threat to the industry. That is why hundreds of people stayed on hold for hours to tell the CPUC that this was going in the wrong direction. We need to make it easier and more rewarding for everyone to add solar. Hopefully they got the message!

Best regards…

Jim

I created an account just so I could thank you for this article and discussion. I am totally in love with the idea of solar, just not in love with the payoff horizon. Being older, and within 5 years of retirement, the last thing I want to do is lease OR grab a 25 year loan to pay for a system. Especially true if I should decide to downsize within 5-10 years. But your article really opened my mind to new questions and realities around net metering and solar in general. Thank you for all of your answers, Jim. Really appreciate your transparency on the subject.

Thank you for the kind words. I was so impressed by my colleagues - both installers and system owners - who waited as much as seven hours to be heard. We were a powerful voice today and I am confident that we will be heard!

Your words go the heart of this crisis for the solar industry, and I am sorry that time constraints prevented you from delivering your complete statement. Your unified colleagues have been vocal and visible, and California’s pioneering solar efforts have spurred many other states (notably my own, NC) to move the industry forward. I hope that the powers that be take appropriate action.

Thank you for your kind words. I agree completely that unscrupulous salespeople - and especially the companies that hire them - are a blight on our industry.

I don’t know where you are or when you signed your contract, but for the past few years in California solar contracts have to include a disclosure document that identifies the total cost of the project - including all financing costs - over the lifetime of the project. That doesn’t solve all problems, but it is a start.

Feel free to contact me directly.

Best regards…

Jim

Thanks for everyone who posted their issues with solar. I do have an issue at hand and am trying to figure out how to even begin, so I am going to look at contract’s signed first and gather as much info as I can then reply again. Jim, thanks for the time that you put in to your responding to issues that people are having and really are not your issues or concern, I truly respect the information you have taken time to give on each situation. People really do have genuine problems from the solar that they are now obligated and contracted and locked in, however, the sales person I have experienced is their lack of honesty and only concerned at the end of the day is what commission they made for that day no matter how they got the sale. we as home owners are left with excitement and then in financial distress and the end of the year due to poor salesmanship and lack of truth portrayed to the homeowner’s. I do thank you for all that you do. you will hear back from me soon with my problem.

Vickson -

I cannot really advise you directly, since I’m unfamiliar with the details of the market in New York. What I would suggest is you contact an installer who is NABCEP certified. Here’s a link to the list of such installers in New York state:

https://www.nabcep.org/nabcep-professionals/?last_name=&country=USA&state=NY&certification_type=PV

Get multiple quotes, and ask a lot of questions. Ask for references and talk to them. Take your time, this is a big investment and you want to get it right.

Good luck!

Jim

Hi, i am considering solar installation and my research brought me here. looking at all the coments and problems here, it makes me loose interest in going that route. i have a company called trinity solar come knock my door telling me i could save on my bill and they gave me an estimate of free installation and only pay $67 monthly for 25 years fixed. i am suspecting the problem of paying my electricity company in addition with the “net metering". also I would prefer to have the back up battery for nights and stormy days. i forgot to add that i was told if i use the state grant towards my bill, i would be paying $44 monthly fixed for 25 years. I live in Newburgh NY. Please what should i do to avoid similar problems other people had with solar installation in terms of paying electricity company whiles with solar. please any other advise or guidance will be mich appreciated. How many panels do i need to install for a 2500 square feet house. God bless you.

Jayson –

I don’t know how things work in TX, but generally if you build a home in a city area, you will be required to be tied into the local utilities. You could certainly size a PV system large enough to cover most, if not all of your usage, but you would need a storage system as well to cover night time, as well as stormy days. And you would still end up paying access fees to the utility, even if you rarely pull energy from the grid.

Designing a storage system to support you during an outage like what is going on in TX right now is a complicated process. While a home of the size you describe will likely use 35-45 kWh/day - more if you have lots of toys - in an emergency you are not going to try and power all of that, unless money is no object.

Instead, you would want to pare down to just the absolutely necessary loads: refrigerator, lights, maybe a space heater if the gas goes out.

Good luck!

Jim